In Kyle2U #201, Kyle talks to Tame Your Anxiety author Dr. Loretta Breuning). Here’s the transcript of the podcast episode.
Kyle2U #201: Tame Your Anxiey (with Dr. Loretta Breuning) Show Notes.
Kyle McMahon 0:06
Hey guys, welcome to Kyle2U. I’m Kyle McMahon. As you know, we’ve had a bit of a break since the last episode. What I wanted to do was really refocus what we’re doing with the podcast. And so I’ve scheduled some really, really, really incredible guests to help you transform your life. Look, I’m a millennial. I know how tough it is, I know the hustle, believe me, I really, really do. And so there’s so much going on for our generation that there wasn’t for other generations, you know, they’re there. And a lot of them don’t even see it. But it’s true. I mean, the statistics show that we are dealing with a lot more than previous generations had to deal with regarding debt and inflation and all kinds of insane stuff.
So you know, I want this to be your home to improve your life to transform your life. That is the whole motto of why I started Kyle to you the website and and the podcast in the first place it is to help you give you the tools to transform your life. So I’m really excited to relaunch with Season Two of the Kyle to you podcast. So the first guest for the relaunch for season two is Dr. Loretta Bruning. And she is absolutely incredible. She’s the founder of the inner mammal Institute. And she has a very, very interesting history. She was a college professor for decades. Outside of that she studied mammals, you know, animals in their brains and their reactions to fear and and there were
responses. So she has a very, very, very interesting, you know, background to talk about anxiety. So she actually has a book, tame your anxiety and it’s, it’s really, really cool. She puts it in layman’s terms, she makes it really easy to understand. I really, really love this book. So I am proud to present to you my interview with Dr. Loretta Bernie.
So first of all, Dr. Thank you so much for speaking with me. I really appreciate it. I’m excited to talk to you about finding your happy hour and your new book tame your anxiety.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 2:44
Great.
Kyle McMahon 2:46
So let’s start. First of all, you are a founder of the inner mammal Institute, and that helps people manage the ups and downs of their mammalian brain. Is that correct?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 2:58
Yes.
Kyle McMahon 2:59
And can you tell me a little bit about about the inner mammal Institute.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 3:03
Sure. So I was a college professor for 25 years and I had studied motivation according to the usual social science doctrine, and it wasn’t working for me in my life. And I noticed that it wasn’t working for a lot of other professors in their life. So I started studying more deeply what motivates animals and I learned that they have the same brain chemicals as us. And in the animal world, it’s very easy to see what triggers them because they don’t restrain themselves. And so we’re talking about dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin and endorphin. These are the brain chemicals that make us feel good. And they are released for reasons that are not often what we’re thinking.
Kyle McMahon 3:49
And why. Can you explain a little bit about that? You know, traditionally what sure what I think as a non science person is probably different than why it actually happens with those chemicals?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 4:04
Yeah, so in the state of nature, nobody has a refrigerator. So you have to constantly look for food, or else you start. But if you wait until you’re already starting to look for food, then you don’t really have enough energy. So don’t be mean is the good feeling that you get when you see something that meets your needs. So if you see some fruit in the distance, or if you’re thirsty, and you see a waterhole, then your brain says, oh, that meets my needs, and it turns on dope for me. And that gives you both a good feeling and the physical motivation to go towards it. And that good feeling we’re always looking for because in the state of nature, that’s what allows you to survive. That’s the natural constant motivation. So in the modern world with our bellies full so easily, then we have to look for other ways to get this feeling of excitement.
Kyle McMahon 4:54
Okay, and you are a Doccet at the Oakland Zoo and you give tours on mammalian social behavior, how as what have you seen that is, you know, kind of a duality between the animals, social behavior and humans.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 5:19
Okay, so humans have a big cortex, which is the part of the brain that understands language. So when you’re talking to yourself, it’s all in your cortex I, I call it your inner public relations agent.
And you know that saying, don’t believe your own press clippings. So we all go around believing our own trust, right? But underneath our big cortex, which is unique to humans, we have the same brain structures that all other mammals have. And that’s what’s controlling our chemicals. And that’s why you know, one part of you says, Oh, I feel I feel really good if I the whole pizza and another partof you would say, No, you won’t feel good if you ate the whole pizza, or whatever else the thing is. So that’s why we sort of feel like we’re of two minds and so many things. So animals don’t have a large cortex. So they just act on these impulses and in the state of nature that works. That’s the brain that evolution created, and the cortex. It’s not there to make you miserable. It’s there to anticipate future consequences.
Kyle McMahon 6:26
Okay, wow. All right. That’s pretty powerful. And
Dr. Loretta Breuning 6:30
yeah,
Kyle McMahon 6:30
what do you think that we, as humans as big mammals, what do you think we do to ourselves that kind of hinders ourselves with all of this?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 6:47
So to complicate it a bit more parts from the unhappy apart from the happy chemicals, we have unhappy chemicals. And cortisol is that the stress chemical that we hear a lot about and then You imagine in the state of nature, like you had to learn not to touch fire, so you only had to touch it once. And that would build a pathway in your brain. And anything that’s painful, it builds a huge pathway that says, whoa, don’t go near that. So, because of our relatively safe world from a physical perspective, any social pain, any social frustrations or disappointments or obstacles to getting our social needs met? That seemed like a huge threat because our whole danger radar is being invested in that because the rest of our lives are so safe.
Kyle McMahon 7:43
Wow. Okay,
Dr. Loretta Breuning 7:45
yeah.
Kyle McMahon 7:46
That’s incredible. Yeah. So I love you have this concept called finding your happy hour and I love that. Can you can you talk to me a little bit about that?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 7:58
Sure. So I mentioned cortisol, it has a half life of about an hour, I’m sorry, it has a half life of 20 minutes, which means you get rid of most of it in about an hour. So cortisol, as most people have heard is the chemical that makes you feel like you’re in immediate danger. And if you think of a gazelle who smells a predator, what’s the first thing you do is you look for where is the predator before you can run. So our brain is designed for it to look for threat signals. So once you get a little bit triggered by something, your huge cortex is using all of the power of seven, you know, 7 million years of human evolution to find threats. And we’re really good at finding threats when we look. So that whole hour that cortisol is in your body before you eliminate it. You just looking for bad stuff. So that’s what I suggest is have an activity that You love that you can go to so that you don’t release any more cortisol because that’s how you get in a loop is when you release more cortisol and then you release more and more and more. But if you do something fun for that hour, then you don’t get in the loop.
Kyle McMahon 9:16
And is that something…. So I struggle with planes. My dad’s a pilot, Don’t ask. But so I’ve had, you know, I have an on and off relationship with flying. So sometimes I’m flying all the time. And sometimes I’m not flying for a year. What is that? Is that something specifically that I can do? Is it like a muscle that I have to build up? Or is it something that I can specifically do in that moment to break that loop?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 9:45
Good question. So first, the fear of flying is a circuit like the fear of fire. So that’s built from some actual past experience and we all have these fear circuits from our past experience. So the challenge is to build a new positive circuit with a positive association for flying. So what I would suggest is, and I’ve had to do this myself, think about just you love to do like for the next month or two, every time you want to do something, whether it’s delicious food, or a fabulous show you want to watch, save that for your next plane flight. And then it’s like, Oh, I can’t wait to eat that on that plane flight. I can’t wait to watch that on that plane flight. So you build up positive expectations. And then when you’re on the plane, then you get to do all those things you like including when you’re exhausted to say. Wow, when I’m on that plane, I’m really going to enjoy doing nothing, you know,
Kyle McMahon 10:49
okay, I love that. Thank you.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 10:53
And I have one of these coming up because I I don’t love to flop but you know, I mean I I had One time when I really really struggled with it, and it was actually before you know, terrorism it was when I said, you know, what is causing this. And I had these various things, including my, my mother was dying. And I was leaving my little children at home to go visit her. And I was taking night flights. And at night, we have fewer resources, you know, less courage, less strength. And then I was had a really bumpy flight. And so and it was not. Yeah, so I think I just built that whole all the negative associations, I built out really bad feeling. And now I have this thing where I don’t want to fly more than 10 at like not more than a 10 hour flight. I’ve decided that is my maximum and just yesterday Had to book on have a conference in Argentina. So it’s 14 hours away. So I’m really dreading that. So I’m already starting to plan andmy positive cash and in the book I call it filling your pantry with anxiety teamers. So you know the the cliche about when you’re on a diet. If you only have junk food around you’re going to eat it. So you have to empty your pantry of junk food and fill it with good food. And so filling my pantry with fun things to do on the plane.
Kyle McMahon 12:36
I love that. I absolutely love that. And by the way, I love the book and it’s tame your anxiety. I love how you’ve broken it down to be easily digestible. It’s not like a science textbook. You know what I’m saying? It is so relatable so easily digestible, but it is really powerful in the what you’re saying how How did you go about writing, tame your anxiety?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 13:03
Oh, hmm, thank you. Well, I should confess that I’m, most of my books are about happiness. So, I guess maybe it’s a gradual transition because the second book was about positivity. But I had to write about negativity in order to get to positivity. So maybe that was a projection. But I very much believe in this idea of focus on what you want rather than what you don’t want. So I’m not a big supporter of the disease view of emotions. But then I got some requests to write about this. So that’s how I
Kyle McMahon 13:41
I find that fascinating because I am the same way in the belief of focus on what you want and and don’t focus on what you don’t want and I swear it has changed my life. Okay, yeah,
Dr. Loretta Breuning 13:55
yeah, definitely. So yeah, because if you if you focus on what you do want, your brain is very good at proving that it’s right.
Kyle McMahon 14:05
Exactly. And like you mentioned earlier, then you start finding things to back up that belief.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 14:13
Yeah.
Kyle McMahon 14:14
So what is what is tame in regards to your book?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 14:20
So what I talk about always is from the perspective of nature. So what would be tame in nature? Well, it’s not really a domesticated animal because in nature, a domesticated animal would not survive. And that’s not the job that our brain evolved to do. So it wouldn’t really be sitting on a tropical beach with a margarita, because that’s not what an animal does when it’s threatened. So caning in nature, it’s really taking action, and then seeing that your action has succeeded. So for example, if a gazelle smells a predator, it finds an escape route. Run, and then it goes back to enjoying the grass. So it’s meeting your needs and feeling confident in your skill of avoiding threats.
Kyle McMahon 15:11
I love that. And then opposite to that, what is anxiety?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 15:17
And so anxiety could think of it as a circuit. I don’t, we’re all born with billions of neural pathways, but almost no connections between them. So the connections we have determine where the electricity in our brain flow, because it’s sort of like if you’re driving a car, you’re going to go where the roads are, you can’t just drive, you know, through the forest. So that’s what the electricity in your brain does. And that’s how you make sense of the world. When you take in the world. The electricity is triggered by your senses, and it flows into the pathways you have. So if you’ve spent your whole life building up to pathways, and that’s where your brain is going to go, but you have the power to build new pathways withPositive expectations. And again, positive but realistic. So it can be positive, like puppies and rainbows and butterflies. But it’s confidence in your own skill of managing in small steps. And this is the whole thing is small steps is all it takes to trigger a positive feeling. And then another small step and another small step
Kyle McMahon 16:23
That is huge. That is like so huge because I think sometimes people and I’ve struggled with anxiety all of my life and in the past couple of years, I’ve really been able to help help myself to to manage it. And I attribute a lot of that with taking small steps and I love how that is something that you really focus on. It’s not huge steps this I think some people get overwhelmed like I’m never going to be able to not be anxious or not having anxiety or panic attack because it’s just it’s so much to do but it’s not really about that. It’s the small steps.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 17:05
Yes, exactly. And again, if you think about it, like a gazelle, if it goes out smells a lion, it looks for an escape route. And then it takes one step after another. It doesn’t focus on the lion. It focuses on it steps in order to successfully navigate the past. And the gazelle is never saying, oh, but the lion still out there. I want to rid the world of line forever. And I can’t be happy until I do that. No, it’s just saying how can I meet my needs? And that’s the job that our brain evolved to do. And you can’t get happy chemicals from your cortex, you have to get them from your mammal brain. So you two brains really have to work together.
Kyle McMahon 17:47
Wow. And you talk a lot in taming your anxiety about the power over your own brain. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 17:58
Yeah. So the power of our own brain is actually smaller than we are, which is why it’s so important to use it effectively. So, one very well known metaphor for this is that the brain is a horse and rider. And in other traditions, it’s an elephant and ride or a donkey and a rider. So it like you could see, like, you can’t really control the elephant or the horse. But on the other hand, you sort of need to control it. So you could think of the two being at war. And that’s not a great way to live if you’re two brains are at war with each other. So I focus on how can you train your two brain to learn from each other to work together to cooperate with each other?
Kyle McMahon 18:47
I love that and and I can’t, I can’t tell you enough how much I love this book.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 18:56
Thank you.
Kyle McMahon 18:58
And so one of the other things that you talk about is the relationship between food and anxiety. And what exactly is that relationship?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 19:12
Well, it’s complex. And I go into a variety of different relationships. But there’s two things. One is that in the state of nature, as I said, you had no pantry or refrigerator, no food stores, you have to constantly look for food. And if you didn’t find foods, that was a real survival threat. Now, think about a newborn baby is born with all this equipment to say, I’m hungry, but I don’t know how to get food. So that’s a survival threat. So the first thing a baby does is cry because it feels needs, but it cannot take action to meet its needs. So for all of us, like the foundational circuit in your brain, your first experience is this sort of panicky, threatened stealing You feel the need, but you can’t do anything about it. And so that’s sort of something that everyone is challenged, manage that’s part of life. And of course, that they when a baby cries if needs get met, but then eventually the baby learns like, well, I need this person to come to meet my needs, but the person doesn’t always come.
Kyle McMahon 20:26
Yeah
Dr. Loretta Breuning 20:26
So it’s like, you have limited control over the world. So you gradually build your power to meet your own needs. But the more you do that, the more you learn that your power has some limits. Not going to use that circuit. So it’s sort of like putting on the brakes. It’s like saying, My electricity could flow effortlessly into that circuit because it’s so big and well developed that I just pull over there without even noticing. But if I stop, I can redirect my electricity into a different neural pathway. But that’s hard to do. Because the new neural pathway is not big. It’s like choosing to take a tiny, tiny little path through the jungle, rather than the paved road. But when you know that the paved road goes to a yucky place that you don’t want to go to, then you invest the extra energy it takes to try to blaze a new trail and the jungle neurons.
Kyle McMahon 21:44
Okay, okay. Wow. Jeez, that’s like heavy and like, that’s like a Whoo, like, a huge moment to really think about, you know what I mean?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 21:54
Yeah, yeah, I have another analogy, but I can’t help. You may have heard that. If you have a large ocean liner, when it turns, they put all of the engines to turn the ship, and you don’t see any movement for 20 minutes. So you have so much momentum going in the direction you’re in, that when you make all this effort to turn, and you don’t even see a result, like even the ship, even when they’ve done the right thing, you don’t see it for 20 minutes. So it’s the same way with your brain is that when you change and you do the right thing, it doesn’t feel right at first, because you’re also circuits are so big. So you have to keep doing the new thing for a while before your electricity flows effectively. And that’s, that’s the stumbling block. I think for many people.
Kyle McMahon 22:49
Absolutely. And yeah, that’s really like an aha moment. I love those analogies. Where do you Where do you think that people you know, I think I would assume that somewhere in people people’s lives, they go from, you know, a more calm state. Obviously, not everybody but as, as children typically, you know, as you said, our needs are met more often, where do people go wrong with, you know, something that they’re doing or a way that this thinking or whatever where anxiety starts to permeate?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 23:27
Well, quite frankly, I don’t think a lot of this in the book, but many people get rewarded for anxiety. So the brain is always learning from what gets rewarded. And speaking as a teacher, I’ve even heard today that a student can go to the teacher and say, I’m having anxiety and then the teacher says, okay, you don’t have to take the test. You know, or, let’s say you have anxiety and your parents suddenly drop everything and relax the rules and they’re suddenly nice to So that would be, you know, the brain does whatever gets rewarded and person isn’t necessarily trying to do that. But that’s, that’s what works. Another example of how it happens is what’s called mirror neurons, which are always learning from the behaviors around you when you’re young. So if you are a child and you have a parent who’s having anxiety, it’s easy to learn that or, or peers.
Kyle McMahon 24:31
Yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s really, really interesting. Because you know, as you said, it it is it can absolutely the learned a part of it, you know, as you stated with, with our brains getting that reward, I guess that’s showing us that, oh, I can do this again and get rewarded again, I don’t have to take that test now or whatever. That’s very interesting. I’ve got to tell you, I and I know that that teachers do this but not My teachers, there’s so many times I had anxiety regarding tests or whatever, and they’re like, Okay, well, you know, back when I was in school, they’ve, they should probably, you know, get back to that in that regard.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 25:14
Yeah. So another thing is small steps. Like if if a student has anxiety about a test. Here’s another problem. They promote students, whether they’ve learned the material or not. And so over time, it just seems like a bigger and bigger Gulf. So it may hurt a person’s pride. But if they go back to a lower level, then they can master it and mastery success. That’s what our brain learns from we need to experience success in order to have the expectation of success. And once you get to something where you can do it, then you enjoy the opening. That’s the I can do with healing. So we all know need to create a small context where a tiny piece of something where we can do it and build on that.
Kyle McMahon 26:08
Okay, and then so looking at some of your other books you’ve written habits of a happy brain retrain your brain to boost your serotonin, dopamine oxy top talking and endorphin levels you’ve also written the science of positivity stop negative thought patterns by changing your brain chemistry and I mammal how to make peace with the animal urge for social power. In regards to the to happiness focused books. What do you think if there is a key? What would you say the key is to happiness?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 26:44
The key to happiness? Well, let me talk about the big thing I haven’t gone into yet which is social comparison. So in the animal world, animals are very competitive. And this is not popular today. There was like a set theory of research on this. And now it has suddenly been swept away. And now we’re being sold the idea that animals are empathetic and altruistic. But in fact, they’re they’re not only competitive, but they’re hierarchical. So animals are always looking for the one up position because it gives them an advantage and food and mating opportunity, and that spreads their genes. And we are inherited from individual who succeeded at spreading their genes, right, that’s where our brain comes from. So brains that will reward you with a good feeling, when you get the one off position is so obvious this the daily life. But the flip side of that is that when you’re not in one up position, your brain sees it as a survival threat. And so many people with perfectly good lives are driving themselves crazy because someone else is in the one up position.
And how I’m sorry. Sorry. And a simple example if you think about it from like, I’ve been on these monkey tours when I remember the first time where it’s like a monkey will not get meeting opportunity if it’s not in the one up position and manage James will be wiped out. So we could not be descended from that, you know that we’re only descended from individual who asserted.
Kyle McMahon 28:08
Wow. So, so do you think that happiness with humans, how can what can we learn from from monkeys and mammals in in that happiness with what they their definition of happiness is compared to what ours is, which is obviously varies by person, but generally speaking,
Dr. Loretta Breuning 28:53
yeah. So when you see that you have this little advantage over the Individual next to you, your brain releases serotonin. This is not the way serotonin is talked about today. But in the 70s and 80s, there were studies and before that, like I said, that was a whole century of research on competitiveness among animals in a field called ecology, which is animal behavior. And so obviously, I’m not saying that you should go around looking for the one up position. But what I’m saying is you are already doing, right. And when you understand you’re doing that, then you liberate yourself from feeling like the world is doing it to you. Urgently one a legacy because that’s the way that we eat our, our survival threat ceiling. And in the past, most people had grandchildren and they invested their traditions into their grandchildren. And so that gave them that perception of survival. But very few people today get to invest their traditions into their grandchildren. So that’s why people are so urgently looking for other ways to stimulate that survival feeling.
Kyle McMahon 31:37
Okay, and do you think that happiness knowing all this, do you think that happiness could be a choice in some ways?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 31:48
Exactly hundred percent.
Kyle McMahon 31:50
Okay. I love that. I love that so much. And then I meant to ask you this, as we were talking about anxiety, but can we Just go back for a moment. is anxiety inherent? And what I mean is, is there…I would assume that there’s not going to be one person who can go their entire life without anxiety, right? At some point.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 32:16
Yes, yes, exactly. It’s a natural response. Our brain is designed to go on expectation. So whatever happened to you before your brain expects it to happen again. So anything bad that happened to you, your brain is looking for more of that?
Kyle McMahon 32:34
Okay, so, so really, what it’s about is not eliminating anxiety from your life entirely. It’s managing the the normal anxiety that one would get through living life.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 32:48
Right, exactly. And what we could say is it’s trying to avoid a cortisol loop. So once you have a negative feeling, that puts a negative lens on Everything, which leads you to more negative feeling and more cortisol and more negative feeling, you know, seeing more negative things. So it’s how can you sort of isolate that and say, yes, this bad things did happen. But I don’t have to then make associations that color everything bad.
Kyle McMahon 33:23
Gotcha. Wow, that is super, super powerful. And I’m glad I went back to that question. So so we got that answer. That’s amazing.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 33:31
Thanks
Kyle McMahon 33:32
Well, Dr. Is there. Is there anything else that you wanted to cover?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 33:38
Yeah, well, we talked about serotonin and dopamine, which very quickly talk about oxytocin. So many people have not heard of oxytocin and then many other people are in the oxytocin fan club, because it’s called the love hormone. And it’s, it’s what makes mammals different from reptiles because mammals have social bonds. So oxytocin creates the feeling of social trust. And it’s nice that we speak it all the time. But we’re not meant to release it all the time. Because if you trusted everyone that wouldn’t be safe. So we’re meant to make careful decisions about how to get it. But it’s complicated because when an animal is with its herd, then it has to follow the herd or else it’s isolated. And when it’s isolated, then it might get eaten. But we humans get annoyed, like who wants to follow the herd all the time, right? But when we separate from the herd, then we feel threatened. And once again, when you understand the seesaw, this frustration of, Oh, I don’t want to be in the hurt, but I want to be isolated. It’s like, Oh, so my inner mammal is doing this. But I don’t have to write.
Kyle McMahon 34:54
And do you think there’s such a thing as oxy tocin addiction. And what I mean by that is, you know, I’ve seen people who they’re always in a new relationship and once they break up with it, and this person is, you know, this is the one for me, and then they break up and then two weeks later, they’re with somebody else and that oh, this is the one for me is is that like an oxy toxin? addiction or?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 35:17
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, I try not to use disease language like addiction. Gotcha. And, and also, we have the healthy we have the concept of attachment, which again, is what distinguishes mammals because baby reptiles don’t attach to their mother, they leave the instant they’re born. And if they don’t leave fast enough, she eats them. Wow. And I now have an attachment period, which is very short for most animals compared to humans. So attachment is like a normal healthy thing. But we, with our big cortex, we can make decisions about When we attach, rather than just attaching to whoever happens to be there.
And so why does this person need like any attachment? And why do others fear all attachment? So the important thing is that all of our circuits are built from early experience. So whatever triggered my happy chemicals when I was young, builds a pathway for me to expect to get more in that way in the future. So one person, maybe when they were young, they got their needs met this way, another person when they were young, they got their needs met that way. And everyone, Curiously, is sort of repeating what they did when they were young. Despite the fact that you know, a lot of us try not to.
Kyle McMahon 36:51
Right. And one other thing about taming your anxiety that I absolutely loved, and I believe I’ve Never seen this in a book. So in the last chapter of the book, you talk about helping others to tame anxiety. And my belief, my belief in life is that we have the power to change the world through telling our own stories. And what I mean by that is in my circle of influence, and whether it’s one person or 10 million people, or anywhere in between. By being authentic and honest and sharing my story and what I went through and how I overcame it, we can if we all did that, in our own circles of influence, we could literally change the world. And so I love that in the last chapter of taming your anxiety, you’ve talked about helping others to attain anxiety. Why was that important for you to put in?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 37:50
Um, well, I’m there is this very big cultural meme right now about helping and people do work want to influence. So influence rewards us with serotonin, because it puts us in the one up feeling in one up position. And also, when we have that bonded feeling, we enjoy oxytocin. So everyone wants to help. But there’s a lot of enabling, there’s a lot of help, it doesn’t help, there’s a lot of rescuing. And so and that doesn’t really work. So I wanted to really go deeper into the difference between help and rescuing. And just to be simple about that, is that modeling positive behavior is better. And then it’s more helpful to people been trying to rescue them. That’s incredible.
Kyle McMahon 38:49
And I also I gotta tell you, from our conversation, there were so many wow moments, the biggest thing that I am going to do moving forward from our conversations is I I’m going to try very hard not to use what you call diseased language. I really, really like that a lot.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 39:08
Thank you. Thank you.
Kyle McMahon 39:09
You’re very welcome. And
Dr. Loretta Breuning 39:11
it’s gotten so extreme, right?
Kyle McMahon 39:14
Yes, it really has. And, and, you know, as I was thinking about as we were talking, and, you know, I try so hard to choose happiness. And, and, and I believe, you know, as I said, that, that I’ve really worked hard the past couple years to, to choose what I want in life. And I want to focus on the positive, and I don’t want to give any time to the negative. And, but I’m giving time and attention to the negative if I’m still using disease, the language. So I really, really love that. And that. So that is out of our conversation that is a highlight for me out of a conversation full of highlights.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 39:52
Oh, thank you, you know, diseased language also takes away our power. And it says, You’re not listening responsible for, for your impulses. And I don’t think it really helps a person in the long run, even though it feels great in the short run, to say, Oh, yeah, it’s not my fault. But in the long run, then it’s like you’re giving up that tiny power when an ocean liner has the power to change its direction, but it’s hard. And you’re just giving it up.
Kyle McMahon 40:27
Right. Right. Yeah, that that is that is incredible. Well, Dr. Loretta, thank you so much for talking with me. I love your book, tame your anxiety. I’m now going to go back and get your other books. Where can we find you?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 40:46
inner mammal institute.org. And of course my books are for sale and all the usual places.
Kyle McMahon 40:53
Awesome. And are you on social at all?
Dr. Loretta Breuning 40:57
Yes, on Facebook. I have a daily updates. Loretta Bruning, PhD and then Bruning people can get br e you and I energy Loretta Bruning, PhD. And on Twitter I’m at inner mammal and I’m on LinkedIn.
Kyle McMahon 41:15
Awesome. I we will have
Dr. Loretta Breuning 41:16
I also have a blog on psychologytoday.com and I have a blog on Thrive global.
Kyle McMahon 41:23
Okay, that is amazing. We are going to put every one of those links in the show notes and and get them out to everybody. And thank you so much for talking to me, Dr. Bruning. I really really appreciate it.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 41:37
Well, I really appreciate your fabulous questions. Thank you.
Kyle McMahon 41:40
Thank you and please come back for the next book. Come back on and let’s talk more
Dr. Loretta Breuning 41:44
Oh, I’d love to you know, I’m my current goal is I want to write this for teenagers because everyone says to me, I wish I knew this when I would be on
Kyle McMahon 41:54
Yeah, about but current project that is awesome. And I think much, much, muchneeded.
Dr. Loretta Breuning 42:01
Okay. All right.
Kyle McMahon 42:03
Thank you Dr. Bruning you too
Isn’t she incredible? Dr. Bruning is I just I love her so much. I love talking to her. She is so she’s a genius. She really is and I love how she just breaks it down into you know, bites that we can understand. Or at least I can understand. So, you know, I really like her style. I like the the science behind what she’s talking about with her books. And I again, I just loved talking to her. You can find her at inner mammal institute.org and we’ll have you know that link and all our socials up on our show notes page. Which by the way, if you go to Kyle, the number two the letter u dot com Kyle to you dot com you can get all of the show notes for this episode and all of our episodes, as well as supplementary information, there’s links to buy her books, and I highly recommend you look into that. And information on some of her videos and all kinds of, you know, resources in stuff that we talked about in this episode. So go to Kyle to you calm, and you can get all that great information. And please continue to support us. I love that you guys are so amazing and so active. I’m at K Mac music on Twitter and Instagram at real Kyle McMahon on Facebook. And you can find the show Kyle to you on Twitter, and Facebook as well. And that’s obviously Kyle, the number to the letter you. I love you guys. I can’t wait to get your feedback on today’s episode. I’m sure it’ll make for some awesome conversations. See you next week.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
